A few weeks ago I was going through a big stack of old books brought home from my mom’s house. (Box of books you need to get rid of? Don’t mind if I do.) I sorted through all of them, deciding which ones would be headed to our bookshelves (if we can find room for them, that is–we have five big oak bookshelves and we’re already running out of room) and which were destined for a listing on PaperBackSwap.com.
Of the ones shown here (which aren’t all of them), only five remained, and even those were, eh, kinda iffy.
I’m not going to tell you which ones. Ha.
I’m an ardent fan of (and believer in!) Christ-centered relationships and purity in such, but I’m not a fan of formulas, plans, or even, sometimes, books giving the so-called “how-to,” unless they are strictly adhering to the basic principles found in God’s Word. I’m especially not a lover of books and articles telling how a “godly relationship” should be conducted written by people who have yet to follow the plan they’re setting forth… or even such missives written by parents of young children, who themselves are often simply telling of what, in their opinion, is a better way than what THEY experienced.
Ever notice that the most balanced and biblical writings on such topics of parenting, relationships and marriage are from people who have lived a long life, are enjoying their grandchildren, and who have already seen all of their children wearing wedding bands? Funny how that is…
My biggest pet peeve lies in the “terms” debate. “No, I’m not dating him,” they say. “We are courting.” Oh, thank you… that’s clear as mud. The very terms mean so little anymore; they’ve been twisted to mean so many very, very different things.
This quote from the book Her Hand in Marriage by Douglas Wilson (which, incidentally, already has a new home thanks to PaperBackSwap–I don’t agree with much of the doctrine this author would claim, nor some of the principles he states, but I’m always a believer in taking the good before tossing the bad) pretty much sums up my thoughts on the whole dating vs. courtship debacle:
We live in a fallen world. One of the evidences of this is that we really have no adequate term to describe the way in which young Christian men and women should get together. Perhaps some time after Christians return to a more obedient practice, we will have been doing it long and well enough to be able to name whatever it is we are doing.
In the meantime, we must use such terms as we have, hence, biblical courtship or biblical dating. We must reject the pattern of abdication, disobedience, and sexual immorality which we see all around us; hence, our rejection of recreational dating, or the modern dating system.
But in doing this, we are bound to use whatever terms we select in a qualified sense. Some couple who “date” are in closer conformity with biblical principles than other couples who embrace the “courtship” model. So in this book I shall routinely refer to courtship, or biblical courtship, and sometimes to biblical dating. If a courting couple goes on a date, we should not all panic and relegate this horror to the same category as nation rising up against nation, or kingdom against kingdom. The end is not yet. (emphasis mine)
Keep in mind here, that, at some point in my life, I’ve said every single one of the silly little things ever to be uttered on this topic. I’ve tossed some of these books at friends and can recite a pretty decent courtship speech. I’m a board member on the website which hosts THE Courtship Story Index. My own story is published there. (Keep in mind, if you click that link, that the story was written a few years ago and sounds, eh… let’s just say… a wee bit immature in places. But what’s new? Heh. It was also written before the changes in my family, and thus doesn’t accurately portray my current outlook on the whole thing. Thus why I took the link off my navigation bar. But, it IS the way it all happened!)
I’m just as much an advocate of godly, pure, Christ honoring romances as ever.
It’s just all the squabbling over the whole thing that, you know, makes my head spin.
Who cares what we call it? And who cares–really–how it all plays out? As long as God is leading, guiding, directing and being sought every step of the way… it’s all good. God doesn’t work by formula. He works by principle.
I know some of you won’t agree. And some will read this and say, “What on earth is she rambling about now?” I’m just feeling a little feisty tonight, so hash it out in the comments.
Tell me what you call it. Dating? Courting?
Or maybe my personal favorite, Dorting.
Becky K. says:
Lets just go with your word. As a mother of teenagers we are caught in the midst of all of this. Some friends feel one way…others the other way. Whatever you call it our hearts seek a life mate. Keeping the standards set before us in the Word of God seems to me to be the most important…
Becky K.
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September 21st, 2009 at 4:42 am
Abutton says:
I agree. It can be really tough with the terminology. And when people think that if you aren't "courting" you're not following God.
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September 21st, 2009 at 5:16 am
Carolyn (cdaisy113) says:
I'm with ya there. :)
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September 21st, 2009 at 5:43 am
Kristi says:
I think that our main goal, as parents, is to, first, pray. From the moment we know we are going to have a little bundle of joy, we need to be praying that God will set aside a young man or young lady that will serve God with our child and raise more godly children to His glory.
The second goal is to teach our children to honor mom and dad. This is a Biblical commandment. If they learn to honor their parents in ALL things, the parental guideline of courtship…dating…marriage, will be honored.
The third goal is to teach them to seek God's will in all matters of life. No matter how great or how small. And a future with a spouse is a GREAT matter of prayer!!
Justin is currently in a relationship with a young lady, whose parents are right down the line in Biblical dating with our family. This is good!! Currently they are, what I consider to be, Biblical dating. People we know have called it courtship. I don't necessarily believe we are doing courtship. I have seen several families do courtship and it has worked beautifully with their children. Praise God! But we do things a little differently. Slightly less rigid. Not that rigid is a bad thing…we're just not AS rigid. Does that make sense? But we don't "date" either. In other words, they have never been in a car alone or gone anywhere alone or been left anywhere alone. Justin goes to her house, or she comes here. Parents and siblings are always around. We take them out to eat, high school football games, the fair, singings, local revival meetings, etc. They don't seem to mind that we are always around. They just enjoy seeing each other and spending time with one another.
As parents, we need to help guard our children's heart and their purity. Their souls may be saved, but they still live in the flesh.
Whether a family courts, dates, or…dorts (lol)…I would have to say just make sure you're following God's guidance. If you're not, the relationship will be doomed from the start.
I think you have coined a new word, Ash. Justin and Kelsey are dorting. Love it!
~Kristi
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September 21st, 2009 at 6:17 am
LeAnna says:
Excellent article! I agree whole heartedly, and was right there with you quoting all of that silly stuff at some point or another, when I finally decided it was all for the birds. Amazingly, I got married soon after. I've pretty much taken that view point on a lot of "Christian" written books providing so called insight and wisdom. Because, lets face it, it's still a finite mans words and thoughts, and what we really need is guidance from THE Word.
I prefer not to get hung up on either term. I've seen just as many broken hearts from "courting" as I have seen in "dating". The missing link being that those involved is failing to be Spirit led.
To fear the Lord is the beginning of wisdom!
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September 21st, 2009 at 6:42 am
DelightinginHim says:
Great article. I just picked up a copy of Boy Meets Girl and plan on perusing it although I am not sure I will learn too much new.
I have a friend right now who is "courting" but really it looks more like dating with a purpose as they are allowed to go places together (families have known each other for a long time and both individuals are quite mature at the ages of 24 & 26).
I really could care less either what it is called although I suspect my family and friends would stick to the courtship label however I don't anticipate it following all the rules or being rigid.
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September 21st, 2009 at 7:35 am
Mosaic says:
I have a couple teenaged boys (and a few more coming up!). I love what Kristi wrote!
I'd like to add to it as well that, to me, dating is going out and having fun for the sake of having fun. Courting is an honest search for "the one". While it may be splitting hairs, there is a difference in attitude. My 16 1/2 year old son courted a girl from church for eight months. And yes, he was thinking future, even at that young age.
They were never alone. They were always with family near. They never held hands or kissed (my son thinks it was cool the way the Duggar's oldest boy and his wife never kissed until their wedding day). While they would say they were "dating" each other, they had the attitude of "courtship".
Not too long ago dating didn't even exist. Young men courted young ladies and didn't take them out of their parents' home and watchful eye. In fact, what we call dating today would give a girl a pretty bad reputation!
Now I believe that in a courtship there may (or may not) come a time for dating, but even then, there needs to be a watchful eye and guidance to help keep them from unneccesary temptation.
Even then, the dating that comes from courtship is different than the one the most youth do today. My sons know full well that they have to ask a father's permission to spend time with his daughter. My eldest has already done this (it's a great look he gets too). He was just asking permission for his daughter to go with the family somewhere.
It's the purpose and attitude behind it that differentiates between "dating" and "courting".
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September 21st, 2009 at 7:53 am
Skye Wensing says:
Agreed.
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September 21st, 2009 at 7:58 am
Jessica says:
I am so glad you feel this way. As someone who has read ylcf for a few years(I discovered it after I was married) I've almost felt condemed at times that my husband and I didn't "court". Neither of us came from conservative Christian homes, so unfortunately we didn't have the protection of our parents that would've been helpful in the teenage years. However we were pure in our relationship before marriage, and now enjoy a marriage that we strive to make Christ centered. I will say that now that we have 2 kids of our own we are planning on being a lot more protective of them when the "dating" years begin, and hope to guide and encourage them to wait until they are ready to pursue marriage before they begin any serious relationships.
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September 21st, 2009 at 8:13 am
Fair Maiden says:
I'm right there with you, Ashleigh! When my Husband and I first started our relationship, he didn't want it to be called "courting" because of people he knows, and experiences he had, so his term was "dating with a purpose." At the time, I wanted it to be called courting and didn't like the sound of anything with the word "dating." Yes, I've said it all too, and even tried to be pushy on friends in the past. Now looking back, we don't really have a term for God-honoring relationships other than just that. Dorting sounds good. :) What we do know, is that although some would have scorned us for saying we were courting (because we were in a relationship, heading toward marriage), we held our relationship pure before God, and we had our parents involvement. I believe that every relationship is different because every person is different, and am strong on the whole formulas and "steps" not being a good thing. That's like putting God in a formula, and that doesn't work. :)
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September 21st, 2009 at 8:31 am
Katie says:
Haha! "Dorting." I love it. :)
I am currently in a "purposeful relationships" with a young man (whatever you want to call it–we are working toward the possibility of marriage). I have to say that all the courtship debate has actually caused some confusion in our relationship. Rather than making things easier, it has muddled things quite a bit. My ultimate desire is to glorify the Lord in our relationship, but it has become quite an issue to not let some of the legalistic courtship ideas get mixed into it all. In the past few weeks I have struggled with quite a bit of guilt in trying to please both my family and my man. There is something wonderful about having the families involved in the relationship, but there is a point when it comes down to the fact that you are the ones who will be getting married to one another. I'm not at all suggesting that young people alienate their families and go against what they say. I try in everything I do to honor my parents in this, and I think so far we have succeeded. But I've realized it must ultimately be the couple's relationship, and we must be led by the Lord, not by fears. I wish I had learned this before.
Thank you so much for your thoughts on this! I have been dealing with this so much lately, and it was a relief to read your thoughts on it. :)
P.S. One of the best relationship books is Passion and Purity by Elisabeth Elliot.
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September 21st, 2009 at 8:34 am
Samantha R. says:
LOL, just had to laugh at the term "Dorting" hehe, too funny =D
I'm not a big fan on just calling it courtship nor do I believe that there is a one plan fits all couples formula either. That's just unrealistic!
This year was the first time I had a super close friend start into a relationship. So it's all kind of new to me in that respect :)
I do like the idea of both families being very involved; esp the parents but I'm not super strict on a set of rules, by any means!
Following God's Word and principles is best. Kristi had a lot of words of wisdom!
By the way, I recognize some of those books…. and even own a few ;)
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September 21st, 2009 at 8:46 am
jAne says:
My daughter is engaged after 3+ years dating/courting/dorting (love that!) a young man who has shown his worth, love, devotion, commitment and honor – to our Lord and to our daughter. We didn't set up an iron-clad list of rules and we weren't oppressive. We came alongside and prayed with them, were/are still approachable for them to discuss things while seeking Christ in all things. We sought the Lord's leading rather than bending to *man's* opinion, rules and judgement. We look *so* forward to May 29 when they'll marry. It is a lovely thing. :o)
Early on in their *dorting* I found a quote that sums up Rocky's and my stance on this subject.
*** Let’s not become absorbed with either creating or following a myriad of rules for courtship. We would all be better served by focusing on a few key principles, while remaining flexible to the situation and seeking the Lord’s leading and wisdom. Suggestions and examples of other courtships can be very helpful, as long as we use them properly. We must not try to force every courtship into one narrow mold. Extend some grace to your brethren in Christ. You may not see the wisdom in some of the courtship decisions of others, but don’t be quick to criticize or find fault. ***
In Him,
jAne
http://tickleberryfarm.blogspot.com
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September 21st, 2009 at 9:02 am
MaureenE says:
Great post Ashleigh! There are a number of us out there who are still absolutely committed to Christ-centered relationships but who are frustrated with all the terminology wars. (Ironically several of us are moderators of a message board titled "I Don't Date". But we can't change it because we have too many jokes involving the initials.)
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September 21st, 2009 at 9:12 am
Karen@Candid Diversions says:
Great post! My husband and I "dated" but we were dating toward marriage and well, that's exactly what happened.
We spent lots of time with our families and groups of friends but we were also, despite best intentions, alone together at times. You really find out who you are and what you believe in times like that. And yes, with God's help, we did manage to make the right choices even with all the temptation and raging hormones. ;)
Now we're raising three daughters (so far). We joke that we're already "accepting applications" because it's a long vetting process. (Our girls are only 7, 4, and 2) I want to raise them carefully and I want there to be clear standards of behavior, but I also want them to be strong enough in what they believe to do the right thing even when they know I am not watching, if that makes any sense.
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September 21st, 2009 at 9:16 am
Rebecca says:
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I agree with you 100%!!! I don't call it anything. And when I enter a relationship (which has yet to happen, but may still happen someday who knows?) I don't know what I'll call it. I know for sure that to say "courtship" means a whole bunch of different things to different people. So, I'm afraid to use that word. :) Thanks for this article!
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September 21st, 2009 at 11:24 am
Christina says:
I totally agree with you, Ashleigh. It's been a rant of mine for a while. Trash the whole formula and let God work out each relationship. I don't have a problem with dating or courting, depending on the situation. People thinking it has to be a certain way are putting God into a box of the way they think it has to be done! God will work everything out according to what is best if you trust Him!
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September 21st, 2009 at 11:34 am
bessie.viola says:
Ashleigh – Can you recommend some titles that you did enjoy and did feel were appropriate, either here in the comments or via email? I've got a daughter (she's only 19 months old, so a little early for this, LOL!) and it's led me to think a lot about what my parents allowed/didn't allow me to do. I absolutely think I will do things differently, but need some guidance on how to accomplish that.
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September 21st, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Abutton says:
I second the request for good book suggestions on the topic! :)
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September 21st, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Abutton says:
I second the request for good book suggestions on the topic! :)
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September 21st, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Christine says:
This was an interesting and enlightening conversation for me. I was raised by godly parents who met at church some 40-odd years ago. I was raised in the church (mainline Protestant denomination)and have been highly active in it for most of my life. My HS youth group talked about relationships and why sex was to remain part of marriage only. But never once had I ever heard of this debate between Biblical "dating" and "courting" until about 6 months ago on another Christian blog I read (not that I can remember which one).
The interesting thing for me though was that from the very beginning it was perfectly evident to both my husband and I that it was God's hand that brought us together. The timing, the circumstances…every aspect of our relationship could never have been conceived or accomplished by anyone but Him. We came from very different faith backgrounds and experiences so the only way it would ever have worked for us was for God to ordain the timing of our meeting such that we were both open to the possibility of continuing our journey together. God and his will for our life together has been the center of our relationship from the very beginning. So I guees I'd have to say that I agree with you, that God doesn't follow a formula when he brings a man and wife together!
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September 21st, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Mrs. Taft says:
"Crating" is awesome.
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September 21st, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Elizabeth in Alaska says:
Haha! I didn't even know what to call it when we were in "a relationship"… it certainly didn't fit any of the descriptions I had ever read about. And there was nothing fairy tale about it, other than our persistent (stubborn?) love. To this day I am still in awe that we managed to get married.
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September 21st, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Holly Marie Skinner says:
Thank you! I have heard much debate about this subject and I completely agree with you. I doesn't matter what we call it as long as it's God-honoring. You are so right- God doesn't work by formula, He works by principle. I'm also so thankful we don't all have 'cookie-cutter' relationships! How boring would that be?!
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September 21st, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Kate says:
First of all, I;m glad to have you back in the blogging world!! :)
My husband and I were good friends with the goal of marriage. We seldom, if ever used the term "boyfriend, girlfriend"
We just spent lots of time together and went and did things! So I guess we dated along with all the dishwashing, gardening, putting down flooring etc!
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September 22nd, 2009 at 7:49 am
Anna says:
I remember thinking there wasn't a single word to really capture what my husband and I were before we were engaged. We met and began dating two weeks later, knowing we would get married– so I suppose by definition we were 'courting', but I still didn't really like that word. I simply knew that he was my John and would become my husband, and that suited me fine :)
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September 23rd, 2009 at 1:47 pm
women of promise says:
I think my personal favorite is “dorting”. I will have to store this away for future reference…
-Natasha
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October 5th, 2009 at 10:24 am
leilani says:
Great topic! It’s really misunderstood I think! Very! My man and I have settled on dating as courtship in the word itself brought to many problems but the south african version of dating is bacially in practice like courtship anyway.
God bless
leilani
New Zealand
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November 2nd, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Steve n Vickie says:
As far as I’m conscerned, the whole “new” courting fad, was invented by holier than thou, pharisees, trying to make a name for themselves by reinventing the wheel. In the end it all comes down to personal biblical standards created and held to by the couple in question. Even when a set of rules are imposed by parents or other authority figures, the couple will find a way around them, if they have a mind to. In the end, each individual must hold him/herself responsible before a holy God, for the actions he/she participates in. So call it whatever you want, but base your principles on the Bible.
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November 2nd, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Heather says:
It is so interesting how our varied backgrounds play such a part in all this. To me, dating holds such negative connotations…you date until someone gets tired of you or you give into your flesh. That’s just what it means, to me…I know what I did on dates…and most of it was due to the *pressure*… I would rather offer an environment with, shall I say “less” pressure for both parties? How is that gonna happen? Ummm prayin’ on that one and for lack of a better term and because of some beautiful counsel from your mom, Ash :) we “call” it courting. But, for now, all we do is pray and train…what actually comes of it all will ultimately be the *choice* of our daughters to be Spirit led of flesh led…at that point, does the “term” we use even matter? Praying their experience is beautiful…I love reading yours :)
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November 2nd, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Heather says:
It is so interesting how our varied backgrounds play such a part in all this. To me, dating holds such negative connotations…you date until someone gets tired of you or you give into your flesh. That’s just what it means, to me…I know what I did on dates…and most of it was due to the *pressure*… I would rather offer an environment with, shall I say “less” pressure for both parties? How is that gonna happen? Ummm prayin’ on that one and for lack of a better term and because of some beautiful counsel from your mom, Ash :) we “call” it courting. But, for now, all we do is pray and train…what actually comes of it all will ultimately be the *choice* of our daughters to be Spirit led as we prayerfully train them to do, or flesh led…at that point, does the “term” we use even matter? Praying their experience is beautiful…I love reading yours :)
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November 2nd, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Fair Maiden says:
My husband just posted something on his blog:
http://www.flamingpen.blogspot.com
that he had written before we were in a relationship. He found it as he was going through some old documents on his computer.
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November 2nd, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Mosaic says:
I did some research on dating and courtship. Dating didn’t exist in this country until the late 1800’s or early 1900’s.
I really liked the way the following site put it http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001456.cfm
“As cultural historians Alan Carlson and Beth Bailey put it in the Mars Hill Audio Report, Wandering Toward the Altar: The Decline of American Courtship, prior to the early 20th century, courtship involved one man and one woman spending intentional time together in order to get to know each other with the expressed purpose of evaluating the other as a potential husband or wife. The man and the woman usually were members of the same community, and the courting usually was done in the woman’s home in the presence (and under the watchful eye) of her family, most often Mom and brothers.
However, between the late 1800s and the first few decades of the 1900s the new system of “dating” added new stages to courtship. One of the most obvious changes was that it multiplied the number of partners (from serious to casual) an individual was likely to have before marriage.”
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November 2nd, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Christine says:
(((BIG SIGH))) Thanks for this post. :) So many of the “homeschooling conservative” families are putting God into a box by how they think the children should find spouses. When things don’t go just according to plan (like, the guy has never heard of “courtship” and has the audacity to talk to the girl FIRST) the family flips out…. and it’s all downhill from there.
The perspective on courtship which I am most partial to is that of your generation: these twenty-something or thirty-something year olds who “courted” back when it was “a new idea.”
Thanks. :) And, please, MORE DORTING POSTS!!!!! ;)
~ From your former Long Time Lurker (one of ‘em, at least).
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November 2nd, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Courtship DTR | Young Ladies Christian Fellowship says:
[...] your relationship whatever you like. But whether you court, date, betroth, or dort, do it all to the glory of [...]
December 7th, 2009 at 7:29 am
God “crated” us! « Present Memories, Thoughts and Happenings says:
[...] Natalie (Nyquist) Ference’s blog Pursue the Beauty when I came across the link to this post. I enjoyed it very much and it made me think about how I have kept my blog readers (who do not know [...]
December 18th, 2009 at 12:14 am
Heather says:
My husband and I didn’t do either. Neither of us ever liked dating, and had both been in a relationship before each other. So what did we do? We became best friends, and then he proposed to me. But while we were best friends – and while I was in Africa, I might add – he talked to my dad, my dad talked to his dad, etc. All those things that would have happened during “dorting”, I was out of the country for! So when I came back, he simply proposed to me, and then we got married and now we are living happily ever after. :)
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January 19th, 2010 at 12:32 pm